[Forum Project #1] Steam Run Design Document

[sonicforvergame]

Well whatever suit you will be good
But
DO i do a weapon that shoot acid or an enemies that shoot acid ?(when i mean shoot acid, i mean a gun)

[skydereign]

Well whatever suit you will be good

It isn't about just pleasing me. This is a group project, so in the end it is a group decision. We are all here to state our thoughts and opinions, and hopefully form the best product out of it. I personally am against overly paranormal things in a steampunk game, and therefore acid monsters and gaining acid powers.

DO i do a weapon that shoot acid or an enemies that shoot acid ?(when i mean shoot acid, i mean a gun)

Why not both? I've already drawn a few sketches for acid based weaponry, so if you feel like you have to pick only one, do enemies that utilize the acid.

[moonforge]

What concepts do we need to get down before we actually start building the game?

[sonicforvergame]

FOR MOONFORGE:
well for my opinion NOTHING
we need to have all the little parts to at least start making the game

For example
you can't make script without having all the animation for the main actor (which we do not have already )
You can't make a map without having graphics (which we didn't finished)
you can't make the story before having all actors (and up till now we only have the main protagonist)

Stop me if i am wrong

FOR SKYDEREIGN:

can you upload the sketches you made and if you can all of them
maybe i will colorize and texture them on Photoshop if they are still not finished
the most important part is that i have the basic and structure of the gun

By the way here is a silhouette of the next enemy it will look more robotic and will have more metal parts but this is his final structure i will just have to texture it

[Jagmaster]

Maybe it powers the city and the "guardian" will be able to take full advantage of it's power (with an acid blaster maybe). If you were to find a way to repel that acid, that "somewhat" normal boss would become disfigured melt a little (think Two-Face from Batman), and then gain the full power of the acid. His attack power would then increase. It's essentially turning him into a super boss, making it climactic without making it too paranormal. He wouldn't be made of acid. Only affected by it perhaps?

Why would you be fighting this guardian? I think having a boss that utilizes acid is a nice idea, as long as it isn't a monster.

For some reason you'd be on a sabotage mission to shut down central power maybe? Perhaps you get word that Big brother is planning a major attack, and your secondary goal for the moment would be to stall or put a stop to that attack in any way you can? If it fits at all, it shouldn't be the final boss. I was thinking more along the lines of a "medium" boss. He shouldn't be a monster made of acid, more a human or a cyborg that has weapons based on acid. You would find a way to knock back the attack, or maybe shoot a container of acid from overhead (in order for that to work, you'd need a reason to not simply shoot him, but find other means of attack). And for the final part of the battle, he would have a small acid advantage. And nothing too paranormal either, I was thinking maybe he wouldn't take damage from bullets, and you'd have to use a flamethrower or some other non-standard weapon to finish him off. He'd be injured, but still very dangerous. He'd come walking toward you, and you'd have to quickly find a way to finish him.

Maybe that's a little too far-fetched.

well for my opinion NOTHING
we need to have all the little parts to at least start making the game

It'd be better imo to have the big things straightened out before we start the game.

you can't make script without having all the animation for the main actor (which we do not have already )

False: You can start scripting the character before you do any animation. You should have placeholder graphics so you don't put so much effort into something that may not work. I've learned this the hard way.

You can't make a map without having graphics (which we didn't finished)

Placeholder graphics - You got to make a prototype! What if something is wrong with your finished graphics? What if the shape is wrong? What if the game isn't fun? You'd need to start over! That wastes time and effort.

you can't make the story before having all actors (and up till now we only have the main protagonist)

True: We should come up with as many characters as necessary. Not all of them need to be (or will be) included in the final game, but that's what brainstorming is all about!

Quantity over quality. Brainstorming can be abbreviated as b.s.
Why? Because a lot of the ideas that come out of brainstorming will be total b.s.!
But in order to have something that sticks, you need to consider anything that comes to mind that you think will fit.

So, don't feel sorry or frustrated over approval. Coming up with stuff is a part of the creative process, not everything will fit.

An interesting point I've heard from a presentation on video game storyline - It was suggested that it's better to not have every single detail in your storyline planned out before you start making the game. The idea is, that if you write incrementally as you create the game, you will have a story that will flow organically with the gameplay, instead of some awkward narrative that doesn't quite fit with the actions of the player. - Just thought that was interesting.

[sonicforvergame]

well i cant add something to the previous thing you said
everything you have written is right

Now my part is very important

Dear Jagmaster you and Geuser are known for your good graphics ,me Sonicforvergame is trying to keep up and make as much art as i can and i always try to have a good result at the end
i have some questions :

1-what program do you use to make you graphics?
2-are most of your art 3D then you take a screenshot of the image so it become 2D?
2-Can you add a texture for a 2D image like when you do for a 3D image in any possible way ?
3-what 3D program do you use (blender,ect...)?

[happyjustbecause]

I've just read all the updates to this thread, pretty cool stuff. I really like the idea of the acid monster, but I guess it is a little strange to find in a steampunk game. But the idea of acid in a steampunk game is cool, since so much stuff is mechanical and metallic, acid would be really useful again those enemies.

I was thinking of some kind of weapon similar to acid, kind of like the acid mist flamethrower mentioned before. It'd be cool if there was some kind of weapon that just rusted robot enemies away. As you spray/shoot/whatever the enemy gets weaker and rustier, I don't know, some kind of weapon that changes the appearance of the enemy. But I guess that's kind of astray from run and gun weaponry.

The idea of rust kind of makes me think of a cool idea. Maybe there's some kind of junkyard or scrapyard in the game that can be visited whenever you want (or limited amount of times) to gather extra parts for your arsenal. There could be weak rusty enemies barely functional, and just a lot of parts laying around. That'd be a cool background to create, just mountains of mechanisms and broken cogs and steam puffing up every once and a while.

Also, an idea for a character might be a robot/cyborg friend just so that not every single robot is evil or against you. Maybe the protagonist or the protagonists' family made the robot. Kinda like Anakin Skywalker made C3P0. I'm not sure what his role would be, but like I said, just to have at least one friendly robot.

[sonicforvergame]

Maybe we should make the robot one of the weapon you can make because in the game we can make guns, why not make a robot friend, just one that the protagonist can build
but we should make him a difficult upgrade and since you like acid like me the robot parts should be

PARTS:

15 bolts
15 nuts
15 gear
1 gun barrell
2 pistons
10 gallon container (quite rare because can be damaged easily)
10 Liter of acid acid(very rare but can be found after defeating a enemies that use acid)
20 metal sheet
5 cooper sheet (very rare)
1 eye sensor (super rare but can be found after defeating a boss that have the same sensor)
? blue wire(electricity)
? red wire(eye sensor)
1 CPU or mother board (extremely rare but can be found as a secret if you go back to your house after defeating 100 cyborgs)


UPGRADES for the robot
2 small tires(can be used make the robot faster)
2 small wheels
2 LED (to see in the night)
1 scope(can be found after defeating a sniper but do not brake the glass of the scope)

[skydereign]

It sounds like we want the setting to be the fall of steam technology. Everyone has more or less been talking in that direction, so perhaps we should formalize it. Namely, the current technology in the cities are all steam based, but big brother has electricity, robots, and cyborgs. I was originally thinking big brother's side would have electricity, but it would still be a new technology. But if cyborgs and robots are very common, then perhaps this is not the case.

I now have a device with a better camera, so I can take some pictures of the sketches I've been working on. Here are a few sketches.

[Jagmaster]

Also, an idea for a character might be a robot/cyborg friend just so that not every single robot is evil or against you. Maybe the protagonist or the protagonists' family made the robot. Kinda like Anakin Skywalker made C3P0. I'm not sure what his role would be, but like I said, just to have at least one friendly robot.

Maybe we should make the robot one of the weapon you can make because in the game we can make guns, why not make a robot friend, just one that the protagonist can build
but we should make him a difficult upgrade and since you like acid like me the robot parts should be
PARTS...

I really like this idea. Maybe one could play as the robot once it's built.

Dear Jagmaster you and Geuser are known for your good graphics ,me Sonicforvergame is trying to keep up and make as much art as i can and i always try to have a good result at the end
i have some questions :

1-what program do you use to make you graphics?
2-are most of your art 3D then you take a screenshot of the image so it become 2D?
2-Can you add a texture for a 2D image like when you do for a 3D image in any possible way ?
3-what 3D program do you use (blender,ect...)?

1- Software does not make good graphics, patience, a steady hand, creativity, and practice does. I use almost exclusively open source software. This would include Gimp, Inkscape, Blender, and more recently Alchemy. I also use Game Editor, that's open source too. I do own PS Elements but have not installed it yet. I'm too used to gimp. I have Illustrator installed on a different computer, but have found Inkscape far easier to learn and use. It really depends on the artist. Use whatever you're most comfortable and efficient with.
2- I model in blender and then render it. Rendering is a little different than taking a screenshot, and takes a lot longer. It's in technical terms, "...is the process of generating an image from a model by means of computer programs" All the lighting, normal maps, and textures are accurately calculated and saved to an image.
3- If done right, you can overlay a texture over an image. The result is usually flat looking though, and not recommended.

It sounds like we want the setting to be the fall of steam technology. Everyone has more or less been talking in that direction, so perhaps we should formalize it. Namely, the current technology in the cities are all steam based, but big brother has electricity, robots, and cyborgs. I was originally thinking big brother's side would have electricity, but it would still be a new technology. But if cyborgs and robots are very common, then perhaps this is not the case.

Sounds good. And yeah, I look back and I was sort of going in that direction without knowing it! It would be good if the overlords had electricity and the other underworld areas still rely on steam. I don't see why some cyborgs can't be run on steam too, they would be much older and slower, and more primitive. This could be good for the non-hostile npc's, whereas big brother's bots could be electric and slightly more sleek (not too sleek if we are going to maintain an industrial revolution time period).

I really like your sketches too. Out of the guns, my favorites are the explosion launcher, grenade launcher, and the multishot, I think they were spot-on. That mech is neat looking too. The rifles and sniper guns, I wasn't as crazy about. With all due respect, they almost seemed more sci-fi. I'll be the first to admit I'm no gun expert either, but It'd be neat to see some sort of flintlock mechanisms perhaps, it'd make them look more primitive. (If I'm not explaining this well, I'm talking about this sort of thing)

Oh, and should enemy weapons maybe have more embellishments? I'm keen on adding Victorian style ironwork (see image) to some of the more "civilized" weapons, whereas the rebel's would be a hodgepodge of spare parts.

[skydereign]

I really like your sketches too. Out of the guns, my favorites are the explosion launcher, grenade launcher, and the multishot, I think they were spot-on. That mech is neat looking too. The rifles and sniper guns, I wasn't as crazy about. With all due respect, they almost seemed more sci-fi. I'll be the first to admit I'm no gun expert either, but It'd be neat to see some sort of flintlock mechanisms perhaps, it'd make them look more primitive. (If I'm not explaining this well, I'm talking about this sort of thing)

I get what you mean, though a lot of it I think is shown from the materials used. I can see most of the weapons going either way depending on what colors were used. I didn't sketch any texturing either. And I personally don't like the more wonky side of steampunk weaponry), which is why you see more of a futuristic edge. Actually most of those guns were supposed to have a flintlock mechanism, and similar steampunk mechanisms, but it is hard to fit it in. We won't be able to have any definition for the weapons when they get turned into player sized sprites. So I didn't want to add too much in spare bolts/gears/pistons and similar.

Oh, and should enemy weapons maybe have more embellishments? I'm keen on adding Victorian style ironwork (see image) to some of the more "civilized" weapons, whereas the rebel's would be a hodgepodge of spare parts.

Whichever. The current way I see our depiction of the enemy doesn't reflect that they'd have more civilized and polished weapons. They don't strike me as gentlemen, nor do they seem like they would pretend to. Especially since you guys are mentioning cyborgs and robots.

[Jagmaster]

Ah yeah, I see. Yeah color would add a lot, and you really don't want to have too many minor details on this sort of thing due to them getting lost during re-sizing (I tend to forget this all the time lol). I thought about it overnight, and figured those little embellishments would probably pose a bit of a problem in that area.

Whichever. The current way I see our depiction of the enemy doesn't reflect that they'd have more civilized and polished weapons. They don't strike me as gentlemen, nor do they seem like they would pretend to. Especially since you guys are mentioning cyborgs and robots.

That makes sense actually.
So in regards to wonkiness, are we going to aim for more of a square ridged look versus using curved and circular forms on buildings and weapons? Or were you talking specifically about embellishments on guns? If the former, I'll see if I can mock up some scenery/building concepts based on that.

[skydereign]

So in regards to wonkiness, are we going to aim for more of a square ridged look versus using curved and circular forms on buildings and weapons?

Curves are fine. It's more like the gadgets and similar that look like they wouldn't work. Or more importantly, things that an inventor wouldn't really make. Weird thing is I can't really find good examples of this any more, it used to be that most steampunk gadgets looked very odd. I'll try my hand at some less uniform/futuristic weapons.

[kickstart]

I would like to work on the concept and be a programmer. I am excited to help work on and make an awesome game with a team!

[happyjustbecause]

I would like to work on the concept and be a programmer. I am excited to help work on and make an awesome game with a team!

Cool, welcome to the team.

I kind of like the idea of being on the edge of steampunk, mainly for the fact that it creates two sides that oppose each other, those with the futuristic electricity and those who make do with steam. That will really strengthen the identity of the enemy and the ally. It can also allow for two different types of weaponry perhaps? Maybe later in the game you start to get more and more of them. I do love steampunk though, and we don't to just abandon it... Maybe with the inventiveness of the rebels their weapons are just as formidable as big brother is.

Maybe there can be a choice to join big brother and you start to get access to electricity more so than you would if you hadn't joined him? You start to see the other side of big brother's electricity powered army and the steampunk rebels. Just an idea, the thought of electric vs steampunk is kind of cool, and a choice presented would add replay-ability and offer so more to see. But I don't know if we want to start offering choices like that. It would be kind of non sensical to only have one choice and for the main character to suddenly fight for big brother, maybe it could be to save his family or something and if he doesn't join they will inevitably be killed in which he case he is just fighting for the rebels. Ehh, just brainstorming.