Does piracy mean we have no future in game dev?

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Re: Does piracy mean we have no future in game dev?

Postby DST » Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:03 pm

(Read the previous post in this topic before reading this one or it won't make much sense :D)

A used clunker of a car you can sometimes find for 400$, or thereabouts. I once bought one for $250, but I had to put new tires, belts, and a battery in it, so that was an extra 250$.

A cheap, older horse, or a poor breed or unruly horse will start at $2000. It is unlikely to find any horse for less than that.

A well bred, well trained show horse will run you 30-40 THOUSAND dollars, The price of a top of the line SUV.

A Champion racing horse will cost you 100,000$, or the price of a Lamborghini.



ferrari.jpg

This is the Most expensive car ever,
a 1961 Ferrari 250 GT short-wheelbase SWB California Spyder that sold for $10,976,000 at an auction.




horse3.jpg

This is the Most expensive horse ever.
This Horse from Florida sold for $16,000,000
That's 16 MILLION dollars. No car has ever cost that much!


If you ever get the chance to ride thru horse country, like Kentucky or Tenessee, you can get a chance to see how the horse farmers are doing.
Here's one of those modern Kentucky farms:
horsefarm.jpg


Not too shabby, eh? (I'd imagine the guy who owns this house probably drives a Lamborghini!)
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Re: Does piracy mean we have no future in game dev?

Postby DST » Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Everything changes. That's life.

Way back in 1980 Richard Garriot (aka Lord British) created Ultima, a simple computer game that led to a long running series (Ultima online in the 90's was one of the first online games).

He talks about having his friends help him make tile graphics, and copy and shrinkwrap copies of Ultima in his basement for distribution. The Ultima series had over ten games, and made several appearances on consoles too. That is the dream of the indie game publisher, to make a game in your basement and end up being knighted by the queen of England.

Nowadays, people tell stories of being 'beaten to the shelves' by the pirates. It is sad. But that's not the end of the story by any means. The story is changing, that's all. The "SHELVES" aren't the place to do business anymore.

Who rents movies? Who buys cd's? I don't. I buy mp3's. In modern times, a cd is just a useless hunk of plastic. If i were to buy one, what would I do with it? Immediately, I would rip it, convert it to mp3, and file it away in my file cabinet, never to be taken out of its case again.

Do we really want to let corporations charge us for useless plastic? Of course not. Cd's are done. Gone. The past.

The same with movie rentals. They are a thing of the past. What's happened, though, is that without a physical object to define the properties of 'Object for sale' we've lost our mental image of what the object is. Instead of objects, the internet is a constant stream of entertainment, with no beginning or end to the objects.

Its not just piracy.

The cassette tape destroyed the record and the 8-track. The cd then destroyed the cassette tape. And now the mp3 has destroyed the cd. And something else will destroy the mp3. Everything changes.

Cd destroying the cassette.
cdcase.jpg


Even if piracy hadn't destroyed Paint Shop Pro, the open source projects, such as the GIMP, would have. Why pay 99$ for PaintShopPro when you can download the GIMP, which can do all the same things, for FREE?

But free isn't everything.

A World of Warcraft user, buying by the month, could easily spend 180$ a year on that one single game!
Adobe photoshop still sells for 600$ a copy.
Autocad is $3000 per copy.

You can't pirate WOW without hacking the servers, which is very difficult, and as with any crime, if you keep doing it, you will eventually get caught, and lose everything you worked for. The servers, the online service, IS the physical object i spoke of earlier. It has definite boundaries and a definite price.

Photoshop and Autocad appeal to the industrial market, where you cannot publish a 50 million dollar project (such as a space shuttle launch, or GTA 4) while using pirated photoshop/autocad, because you've set yourself up for a huge lawsuit which can take all the profit you've made. Rockstar does not pirate photoshop. NASA does not pirate autocad. In this case, the LAWS surrounding profit are the object. Since piracy, 99% of the time, does not involve profit, there is no object in piracy.

So what does this mean? It means you have to create an OBJECT of some sort. Something which has definite boundaries.

With consoles, that object has usually been a cartridge or a disc. But of course, that doesn't apply to any device which can connect to the internet.

Even if you could develop a game for one of the few remaining 'internetless' devices, that still wouldn't guarantee success. Because even if your game is grand, there are so many online arcades, online games, free to play.

Do a google search for "last chaos" and tell me that that game does not look as good as WOW? And Last Chaos is free to play!
World Of Warcraft
wow0.jpg

Last Chaos
Last_Chaos_screen2.jpg


Yet last chaos is making money. With millions of visitors a day, AeriaGames has a traffic equal to a television network in 1985 (i use that comparison because in 1985 you could sell your game and make a lot of money, yet not have millions of viewers, like a TV network would in those days).

And think about it....how can a free game like LC look so good? Cause they have money. Lots of it. Because that's what traffic brings. Do you think they made those great graphics, those long quests, and maintain those multiplayer servers for free?

The point is....a good idea is still worth a lot of money. In fact, a good idea is worth even more money than it was 20 years ago.

Piracy didn't bring us here. Technology and Innovation brought us here. If you want to make it, for real, you gotta do something good. No, you gotta do something GREAT!

1990 wasn't the best time to make and sell a game, TODAY IS!

I'm willing to bet a singer who is nominated for a Grammy doesn't sleep in an alley, no matter how many people pirate their music.

If you make a game that people like, people will take notice. There is profit to be made, whether by ads, online services, or in selling your game to a bigger company. But it starts with a good game. A good idea. Making a great game is the first step. Your profit will just be made in different ways than it would have been in the past.

Quit trying to be a Lone Gunman and become part of a TEAM!
Last edited by DST on Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:25 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Does piracy mean we have no future in game dev?

Postby Thanx » Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:38 pm

DST: I like what you wrote, and I completely agree with the idea!

I'd like to add to this...
There's not only change in objects, there's a change in people, back in the old Civil War, people weren't fighting for their own proft. Back then, nobody REALLY cared too much on what you owned, though some things you always needed to live, if you had something missing, you weren't regretted for that, you were helped on.

This is the type of thinking that lead to the Civil War... If people back then would have been thinking the way we do now, then the Civil War would have failed!!! There would haave been fewer people fighting against slavery... Why? Cause they'd have carred less for the unlucky slaves!!!
Yes this is what ad happened to us! About a year ago, a TV program made false robberies against an actress on a very busy intersection, where many people walk by every minute... They played the robbery over 3-5 times in the day.
Except once, the robbery was simply watched by the sorounding people. They didn't know this was only acting, nobody knew anything was happening, the camera was hidden! Only 1 out of 4 robberies do the sorounding fellow human beings help the other? A shame!
They had another actor on another busy intersection, crossing the road many times, acting he stumbled... He was only helped up once, even then, by an older man! He didn't act the stumble 5 times, much more times had he "stumbled"!

What do we think of the other nowadays, folks? Is the other "just another evolutionally similar object", or do you think of him as your neighbor?
Back in the Civil War, people in the North thought of the slaves as their neighbors, rightfully!
Since then, there were many wars, many revolutions, and other combat... What are these because of? Material needs, territorial needs, the hate of some specific/unspecific type/color/origin of individuals?
Since the technological revoltion, starting from the late 1800's something has happened to the way people think! We don't primarily try helping eachother, there's more hatred, than simple help! Just because a man helps up a woman who stumbled at the zebra, why do some people think it was because love???
I'll tell you why! It's cause that's not ordinary, you'll see this happen rarely!
People want material good, not the good of the character, that's what has happened...

And if you think of this too, you'll find that piracy is almost self evident if you think this way. Also, what DST pointed out, putting what you made into material, shows that people think materialisticaly!
Siriously, we must ask eachother: what more wasteful, unhelpful can thinking in people get?
The problem is, that the answer is, that it is possible to get down to hell, if you want...
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Re: Does piracy mean we have no future in game dev?

Postby segwego12 » Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:35 am

I just make a liscense agreement that plainly says you may not pirate it. I can tell there are pirates of GE though I never saw any of them.
http://www.freewebs.com/primewaregames/

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Re: Does piracy mean we have no future in game dev?

Postby edh » Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:32 am

I read some of the well thought out responses. I think some of the philosophy around the evolution of the world loses the point.

Let's rephrase it this way. If I have enough money to fund a year of development, does my potential for revenue look better when I write a game for PC or when I write a piece of software to fax from PCs without a fax machine?

No one on this board is going to write HALO or WOW. No one. No one has the budget or team and if they did, they still wouldn't be writing it. They would be managing it.

I'm clearly not talking about some game writing fantasy - I'm talking about writing a truly achievable game to target casual play. Not necessarily grandma games, but something snackable for the $10-$20 range. Equinox is a great example.

I'd love to be writing games for a little fun and profit, but unfortunately I think I need to focus on business software lately.
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Re: Does piracy mean we have no future in game dev?

Postby speckford123 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:22 pm

:shock:

i didn't know the people of game editor were so deep.........
i also didn't know i could read that much without getting bored :lol:
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Re: Does piracy mean we have no future in game dev?

Postby edh » Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:14 pm

HA
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Re: Does piracy mean we have no future in game dev?

Postby Fuzzy » Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:45 am

speckford123 wrote::shock:

i didn't know the people of game editor were so deep.........
i also didn't know i could read that much without getting bored :lol:



sics munts ago, i cudent efin spel programmer, now eye ar 1ne.

Just kidding. ;)
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Re: Does piracy mean we have no future in game dev?

Postby edh » Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:26 am

Wow, fuzzy, your plymostic condition is really acting up.
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Re: Does piracy mean we have no future in game dev?

Postby Fuzzy » Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:55 am

You know that two out of three google references to plymostic trace back to me?

You know how that makes me feel? Hyperlexic.
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Re: Does piracy mean we have no future in game dev?

Postby segwego12 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:17 am

GE Torrents, GE Cracks (Trojan Horses installed), GE Serials (Still bad), and GE Keygens (bad also). This might never end. There is soo much piracy, we can't end it.
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Re: Does piracy mean we have no future in game dev?

Postby Sgt. Sparky » Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:02 pm

Before I sell the game I'm working on (in C++) I'm going to create a way for people to have accounts for the game (Like on Steam.) I'm going to make it where you can't access the full version without having an internet connection to a server that will keep track of who is online. If there is more than one person online with the same account, you kick the person who just logged on off the server, that way they can't access the game until the other person logs off. This way, if anybody creates an account and posts the user name and password online, only one person at a time will be able to access the full version.
When I sell my game, I'm going to sell it for an optional price. The minimum will be one USD, and the maximum will be whatever the person wants to pay for it. This can also help stop people wanting to pirate it.
Most of the time, it seems people pirate applications, games, and such because they can't afford paying the full price. Cutting back on the price and making it hard to pirate is a good way to make sure you actually get money from your product.
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Re: Does piracy mean we have no future in game dev?

Postby makslane » Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:20 pm

Make a mix of offline and online code is a very good solution.

PS.: My post 3000 was here :-)
Game Editor is an open source game creator software that's wants to pay it's developers to keep evolving.
If you like Game Editor, make a review!
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Re: Does piracy mean we have no future in game dev?

Postby Kalladdolf » Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:49 pm

YAAAAAAAAY *gets cake* :wink:
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Re: Does piracy mean we have no future in game dev?

Postby DST » Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:47 pm

The cake is a lie!
It's easier to be clever than it is to be kind.
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