Scripts Just Restate What's Already In The UI?

[GregSmith]

I've been working with the demo version and reading through the help files. When I got to the "Script" section of the reference, I looked through the list of actions, etc., and it looks like these are mostly just the script representations for those events and actions already accessible through the point and click functions of the program, (i.e. destroy actor, create actor, play sound, etc.)

Also, when watching the video help files, more than a few don't work all the way through. I was just getting the hang of the "view following the actor" session , when a wrong dialog was presented and the pointer began clicking on invisible objects in the window. I tried readjusting my screen resolution and that didn't fix it. I re-ran it several times without success.

So, I guess what I am asking is, if I can't learn through watching the video tutorials, and the only examples of using the scripting language seem to be covering functions that can be performed using point and click capabilities, where are the specific sets of instructions and training materials that would allow me, the non-programmer, to take The Game Editor as far as is possible, using scripting only when absolutely necessary?

Regarding learning to program, I've searched extensively throughout the site and forum and I've read that only the basics of C need to be learned - - Which Basics? Where do the basics end and the intermediate and advanced stuff begin? For the novice, simply telling them to learn the basics of C is far too general of a statement to be of much use.

Really, everything I've seen about Game Editor, other than the non-working demonstrations and the scarcity of specific scripting examples demonstrating specific game functionality, looks very impressive and almost tempts me to spend my money. But I've got to ask myself, "What are the odds that I can really produce anything of value, myself, being a non-programmer and, so far, not knowing specifically, exactly what I need to learn and where to go to learn it. And, by the way, this is my conclusion about every other competing product I've searched the web for and tried out. The resources for learning by novices are few and far between.

I can also see that the Game Editor actually works, whereas some of the competing products do not, and are very slow, as well. One thing that immediately impressed me was how instantaneously Game Editor recognized every animated graphics file I attempted to load, (.png sequences with alpha, animated .gif with transparency, .bmp sequences).

I really think the author, Makslane, is on the right track. There just happens to be a great void between the kind of games that can be made with the point and click tools that exist so far, and those that are the result of heavy C scripting. This is going to be an ongoing dilemma until someone actually creates a totally visual programming environment, in my opinion.

Sorry for a bit of a rant, but I think there really doesn't exist, a program of Game Editor's speed and quality, for the non-programmer, or the programmatically impaired.

Greg Smith

[makslane]

When I got to the "Script" section of the reference, I looked through the list of actions, etc., and it looks like these are mostly just the script representations for those events and actions already accessible through the point and click functions of the program, (i.e. destroy actor, create actor, play sound, etc.)

Script version of actions are good to make more flexible constructions.
(by using loops, variables, ...)

Also, when watching the video help files, more than a few don't work all the way through. I was just getting the hang of the "view following the actor" session , when a wrong dialog was presented and the pointer began clicking on invisible objects in the window. I tried readjusting my screen resolution and that didn't fix it. I re-ran it several times without success.

I will try to find this error. What's your screen resolution?

So, I guess what I am asking is, if I can't learn through watching the video tutorials, and the only examples of using the scripting language seem to be covering functions that can be performed using point and click capabilities, where are the specific sets of instructions and training materials that would allow me, the non-programmer, to take The Game Editor as far as is possible, using scripting only when absolutely necessary?

You are right. Game Editor has few documentation and demos, but many users have been making contributions to a better documentation and knowledge base.

Regarding learning to program, I've searched extensively throughout the site and forum and I've read that only the basics of C need to be learned - - Which Basics? Where do the basics end and the intermediate and advanced stuff begin?

Basics like simple math "x = x + 5;" or conditionals "if(x > 3) ..."

To see the advanced, you can look the Global Code of the demos like mini golf or checkers.

But I've got to ask myself, "What are the odds that I can really produce anything of value, myself, being a non-programmer and, so far, not knowing specifically, exactly what I need to learn and where to go to learn it. And, by the way, this is my conclusion about every other competing product I've searched the web for and tried out. The resources for learning by novices are few and far between.

I'm working to make future Game Editor version less script dependent.
While this gold version aren't released, You are welcome to ask your questions here.

Sorry for a bit of a rant, but I think there really doesn't exist, a program of Game Editor's speed and quality, for the non-programmer, or the programmatically impaired.

Welcome Greg!

[GregSmith]

Makslane:

I've also tried downloading and running some of the "demo" games. So far, what I get is a message saying that 'the game cannot be loaded'. So, I sort of gave up trying to study the scripts of those games.

I tried running the "help" demos at screen resolutions of both 1280 x 960 and 1024 x 768. The results were the same with both resolutions.

Do you have an approximate time table for the delivery of the "Gold" version?

Regarding some of the more advanced concepts like "for" and "while" loops, couldn't you implement those with a GUI? I've seen a few examples of programs that use those concepts encapsulated in a GUI.

I'd say, if you intend to continue embodying complex coding functions into visual and textual interface elements, you will have a winning application on your hands. There are just too many guys like me who are good at making graphics and animations, but have no way to really capitalize on methods for bringing their creations to "life", as they could be if they were incorporated into an interactive and somewhat random experience like that which can be found in the "game" environment. If such an application ever becomes available at a reasonable cost, giving that kind of creative power to CG people, at large, they will all be beating your doors down trying to get their hands on it.

Greg Smith

[willg101]

Will the gold version cost more $$?...Ok, I mean, a lot more money?

[makslane]

I've also tried downloading and running some of the "demo" games. So far, what I get is a message saying that 'the game cannot be loaded'.

What's demo give this message?
What's your Game Editor version?

Do you have an approximate time table for the delivery of the "Gold" version?

No time to release. In design stage yet.

Regarding some of the more advanced concepts like "for" and "while" loops, couldn't you implement those with a GUI?

Yes, will be implemented in future versions.

[makslane]

Will the gold version cost more $$?...Ok, I mean, a lot more money?

"Gold" is only a term I have used in the post.

[GregSmith]

Makslane:

I am using the demo version 1.3.0. The specific game that I was trying to load was "Moon Defender". But, I've tried other ones with the same result. I'll try to give you a list of non-loadable games.

Greg Smith

[makslane]

Can you tell me the exactly error message?

[GregSmith]

Makslane:

Error.
Can't Load This Project.

What I have discovered are three things: If Game Editor is already running and you double-click on the "Moon Defender" icon in its folder, the above error message is shown within the Game Editor interface. If Game editor is not running, double-clicking on the same icon seems to try to start Game Editor, but the process fails and you are returned to the desktop. If Game Editor is running and you use the "File/Load" menu choice to Load the game, then it works as expected. Maybe this is just a quirk of the demo version. I guess I was expecting an .exe file when I double-clicked the icon, and then, for the game to actually execute, when what you get when you download the game is the original Game Editor authoring file.

In the "demo" section of the website, are some of the items game .exe's and some tutorials and some authoring files? If so this variety of items has the potential to confuse the heck out of a new user. I think the confusion arises from calling the category of items on this web page, "demos".

I had a similar experience to that with "Moon Defender" trying to run the "demo" called "Buy It". When it didn't work I had the cynical response of thinking, "Oh, they just want me to buy the program," based on the title of the "game" and the fact that nothing happened when I clicked on the icon.


I probably ought to know better, but being a long time Mac user, we're just used to things launching automatically when double-clicked.

Thanks,

Greg Smith

[GregSmith]

This may be too tall an order, but since a whole lot of functionality could be quickly discovered and put to use by "novice" users; would any of you experienced Game Editor authors consider posting some very simple examples that illustrate the use of "basic" C-Script - ("if", "then", "for", "else" and "while")?

Those of us with no programming background really are simply stumped by things as rudimentary as scripting "punctuation" and the way things are ordered in a script, along with "why do you do it this way?", kinds of questions.

The trouble with resorting to buying and learning from a book on C or C++ is that they also teach you to "bundle" lots of lines of code and formatting that may not be necessary within the Game Editor environment. A case in point would be the simple line of C-Script: "x = x + 5;", which can be executed directly, with no other preemtory statements, right within the "script" window. When learning C or C++ from a book and an IDE, (there go those abbreviations again), lot's of other lines of code would be necessary to get the same functionality as the simple line above gives immediately in Game Editor, entered without anything else before or after it. These dicrepancies can really be confusing to a novice.

Studying C or C++ from a book introduces into the reader's mind a lot of stuff that will be unnecessary or just different from the actual C-Script language, which is far simpler in application, than those of full-fledged C instructions which would be required to make things work like they do, more simply, within Game Editor, itself.

I do realize that nobody owes this service to any of us, and that it would require a great deal of time to put something like this together. However, if a learning tool like this were presented at the beginning of someone's exploration of Game Editor, they could immediately see that, indeed, they do not need to learn the C language first, and that the application of C-Script within the Game Editor environment is quite easy and understandable and unintimidating. And, that a whole lot in the way of game functionality can be achieved using the already present, "point and click" tools coupled with the basic C-Script functionality found in applying simple, ("if", "then", "for", "else" and "while"), statements. Don't you think?

Greg Smith

[makslane]

Error.
Can't Load This Project.

Ok. I s a problem with the file name when try open from explorer.
Will be fixed in next version.

In the "demo" section of the website, are some of the items game .exe's and some tutorials and some authoring files?

In the demo section must have only zip files with .ged demos.
Did you find .exe files?

"Buy It". When it didn't work I had the cynical response of thinking, "Oh, they just want me to buy the program," based on the title of the "game" and the fact that nothing happened when I clicked on the icon.

Regardless the name, the Buy It show some basic things in Game Editor.

[makslane]

This may be too tall an order, but since a whole lot of functionality could be quickly discovered and put to use by "novice" users; would any of you experienced Game Editor authors consider posting some very simple examples that illustrate the use of "basic" C-Script - ("if", "then", "for", "else" and "while")?

Please forum members, help need here!

Good stuff about loops and ifs:
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/c8.htm

Those of us with no programming background really are simply stumped by things as rudimentary as scripting "punctuation" and the way things are ordered in a script, along with "why do you do it this way?", kinds of questions.

Sure, some simple errors give great headache

I do realize that nobody owes this service to any of us, and that it would require a great deal of time to put something like this together. However, if a learning tool like this were presented at the beginning of someone's exploration of Game Editor, they could immediately see that, indeed, they do not need to learn the C language first, and that the application of C-Script within the Game Editor environment is quite easy and understandable and unintimidating. And, that a whole lot in the way of game functionality can be achieved using the already present, "point and click" tools coupled with the basic C-Script functionality found in applying simple, ("if", "then", "for", "else" and "while"), statements. Don't you think?

Sure!

[Just4Fun]

Hi Greg,
Welcome to the world of Game Editor! I can really empathize with your trials. Game Editor is an amazing product, but when I first started out with it, I was in the deep end of the pool without knowing how to swim. It has taken me time, and the support of all of the great forum members here to get comfortable with the way things work. I think that the problem is that the Game Editor is so powerful that it captures your imagination faster than you can learn it. You want to start creating programs that are beyond a beginner. I don't know if this will help you, but I started out by really studying the documents. I didn't worry too much about C programming at first. I just tried to get comfortable with how Game Editor worked. When I didn't understand something, I posted to this forum. Someone almost always answered my questions.I also searched the forum for samples and tutorials. There are some good ones here. I tried to set a little goal and work toward it first. Something like, creating a bouncing ball or moving target. I'm swamped with another project right now, but I hope that you will stick it out and see if we can all pitch in to help you. I check into the forum frequently as do others who are much more knowledgeable than I.

Assignment #1- Create an actor and move it across the screen using the right arrow key!

[newtron]

I have tried to use (and bought) almost every game editor that has come along over the last 10 or more years.

They tend to promise too much too soon. Perhaps Game Editor could focus say on Pocket PCs and mobile phones and teach people to create/modify simple games:

Os and Xs, hang the man, etc. Trying to create say a chess program is far too ambitious for most people.

The user guide needs to focus on How to do things. How to create a menu for your game, how to exit a game. For each 'how to' a video tutorial could be created.

The video tutorials are an excellent idea. Perhaps they could be improved if users have to enter the details for the next step to work. Watching someone drive a car doesn't teach you how to drive a car.

Other ideas:
An upload space on the discussion board for learners to show their ged files to other more experienced users.

For PC Pocket/mobile users - the ability to develop/edit geds on a Pocket PC. E.g. a simple game customiser where you add your own picture so you appear in the game. Writing C is too complex for most people (the target audience for this product).

[Game A Gogo]

Other ideas:
An upload space on the discussion board for learners to show their ged files to other more experienced users.

Yeah thats a good idea, I always expect one on this forum.